Pondering Energy Alternatives

by:CTECHi     2019-11-29
It\'s time to think about cabin power.
At the beginning of this project, I decided not to introduce wires.
This will require cutting down more trees and destroying the feeling of retreat in the woods.
Pulling electricity from a distance-
The source of pollution is not what I want.
I recognize how idealistic and defensible it is given the carbon I have used for the rest of my life, including driving back and forth from Boston.
Still, this is my dream (or illusion)
So I\'m exploring alternative energy.
One is to generate electricity from solar panels.
To explain what equipment I need and its cost, I called Backwoods Solar, www. backwoodssolar.
Sandpoint, Idaho.
The people there were helpful and knowledgeable.
To plan the solar system and calculate its cost, the cabin owner must first determine his power needs by identifying each device and its power consumption, and then by a set of calculations.
This is the calculation of my cabin.
I keep my needs.
Estimated power demand: lights: two hours per day, 30 watts per hour. (
Supply candles, oil lamps or bottled gas. )
Laptop: 125 watts per hour 15 hours a day.
Radio: four hours a day, 20 watts an hour.
Total: 2,040 watts per day.
Then divide by 6 (for Maine)
Since I have an average of six hours of sun per day, the number is 340.
Since the equipment has been built-
In the case of inefficiency, I added another 50% to bring the required solar capacity to 510 watts.
We haven\'t finished yet.
In Maine, the sun will shine in about 60% of the time.
This brings my strength.
Up to 816 required for generation.
Finally, this is: 175 watts per solar panel, so I need 4 watts.
66 panels, I rounded it up.
By the way, these panels are 64 inch by 62 inch.
They cost about $180 a piece, but that\'s just the beginning of the cost.
Many other devices are necessary: storage of batteries, mounting brackets, circuit boxes, cables, etc.
The full cost of the system that meets my minimum needs is about $11,000.
This is not cheap.
I asked Tom Kingsland, a remote solar employee who was clear, patient and helpful on the phone, how the cabin owner proved the cost was reasonable.
He told me that there are several reasons why people choose solar energy: it can be cheaper than introducing wires from far away;
Some people do not believe that power companies will continue;
Some hold a philosophy of conservation that prefers to use renewable or non-energy consumption.
\"People look at it from a lot of different angles,\" he said . \".
I asked Tom how much would it cost if I wanted to power my well pump with a solar system.
He said $1,800 more.
This is a huge sum of money for a budget cabin builder.
Then I need my computer to work in the cabin.
I will think about it before making a decision.
Here is the item by item estimate I received from Backwoods Solar.
Comments are no longer accepted.
Lou, I would suggest studying a separate generator that uses diesel or propane gas.
The solar system will have much less money.
They are very reliable and quiet.
Many people start by pressing a button.
Backwoods solar did a great job for my situation, whether it was to advise me or send me what I ordered.
For my very small setup, I ended up spending about $2 k.
Obviously, my cabin is small.
But our needs are similar because my main needs are computers, radios and lights.
The biggest difference I see is the well pump, which I think is important.
So, in my experience, here are some comments on cost reduction.
I found that in the summer, no matter how much electricity I draw from the system during the day and at night, everything can be charged normally every night.
In winter, when the sun is low, I have no problem, because it takes 4 days or more to drain the battery to the level that will be significantly depleted from the panel (
I remember, on the north side of a mountain with tall trees, 135 watts).
So my main reaction is that I think you\'re going too far.
If you plan carefully and try to reduce the level of use of LED lights, etc, estimate what you need.
The overall result of my point of view is that if you see if you can put up with something smaller, Solar might be better than running to your place.
More specifically:1)
I\'m thinking you\'re over.
Estimated computer power-hour rating.
While my power supply seems to be able to output 250 watts, I guess it just works hard for a fraction of the time.
It looks like half of your estimated 15 hours is like this.
My guess is, this is high.
So I will study it again. (2)
You have a very large inverter, but it seems that only the computer and radio are required to operate at a voltage of 120 V (
Can even change).
Outback sold me a really good real sine wave inverter for less than $400.
It can send out 600 W and run my computer, battery charger and radio as needed.
This looks like a place to cut costs. (3)They (Backwoods)
Also sold me a 35 amp Xantrex charging controller, with my single 135 watt panel, it only has to deal with about 7 to 8 amps at any time.
I remember the controller itself was less than $200, although I paid extra for a front charger panel that could tell me more about what it was doing.
So my feeling is that if you can make your system a little smaller, you can save a lot of money with a slightly smaller charging controller. (4)
You may consider a separate system to pump water from a system that pressurizes your pipe.
There should be a good VPs pump that works without a battery on a solar panel to fill the tank.
You can then use a separate pump and a pressure tank with a film and air chamber to pressurize the system in the cabin running the pump.
My neighbor has a system that is about the same size as me, but there is a pump and fuel tank like this, and for him, there is only one panel of about 125 watts that meets all his needs.
This will bring some money to the well pump and to the dedicated panel running it, however, it may be cheaper than strengthening the whole system and running a pump to move the water and get the water pressure. (5)
LED lights are better than compact flash lights and use less power.
Backwoods sold me some good stuff.
5 W spotlight LED lights that can generate enough readings, recently I bought about 20 W LED lights online for about $20 and they only need about 5 W to run.
There is a large wattage, but it is not cheap yet.
But costs are falling.
All my power supplies run 12 v directly from the battery, but I think there can be other rated voltages. (6)
For the solar system, you may occasionally need more power than the Sun, one way is to limit the small generator for high protection or charging when your battery is dead
In my setup, I use the generator to run tableaw and high protection power tools when needed.
Actually, there is no need for me to use it to charge the system.
My generator is an old fashioned Coleman with 6000 watts and cost me about $600.
However, you may be able to lower the wattage through a new, quieter model, but if the power goes low, it will be ideal for charging the system.
Different neighbors have a neighbor who can run all kinds of electrical appliances, and the sound is actually not bad.
My guess is that it won\'t be of much use, and the security of using it as a backup can help you save on the number of batteries purchased and the size of the inverter.
By equipped with generators for large loads, you can easily get them through small inverters that you use on a daily basis.
Anyway, I think you can get through with less money, and if that makes the difference between running lines and getting the solar system you want, it might be worth considering.
FWIW, realize that you will get more advice than you know what to do. . . Best!
In my previous message.
I say \"inland\" in the second paragraph, I mean \"inland \".
What I\'m trying to say is that, in my experience, in the body of your message, you seem to have underestimated the price of solar panels, and the Backwoods invoice seems to confirm that.
This also means that cutting a panel can bring significant savings. Oh yeah.
Don\'t forget to count in the tax credit of 30% (
Not just a deduction)
The renewable energy agreement passed by Congress and signed by the president this year.
I think this addendum proves that I am in line with the stereotype of this absent-minded professor.
Best if you can find an actor
Windows from the local beach --
Renovation of the house used in your cabin, can you do the same for your alternative energy project?
You need a low power for your battery
$10 battery tester.
At the local recycler, you will find that the battery is different in size and voltage.
Some are good, some are not good.
This is what testers pay for its selfin a flash. . (wrong word)
Telephone companies, security guards, cars, submarines and forklifts all use batteries of various weights and voltages.
Some of these batteries are \"timed-
Usually still retain the out \"or calendar expiration benchmark for useful safety factors.
The recycler is happy to get something a little more than the price he paid for them . . . . . . Testers will quickly tell you which ones are worth the cabin. Look on-
Production line of electronic products.
With the $10 tester you may be more confident.
Enter \"used solar energy\" instead of \"solar energy\" online \".
In addition, the price of the a2000 watt inverter at the auto parts supplier is $400 . . . . . . There is no \"drop shipper\" like in your offer that can compete with these prices.
Buy from sellers who publish good sales reputation online.
Components can be roughly divided into three parts in the new system cost.
1/3 batteries, 1/3 solar panels and 1/3 electronic controls . . . . . .
Welded cables can be purchased in a fraction of your wire quote-
It is also in a car shop, ranging from 4/0 to 2/0 (thumb diameter)
Connect components and batteries.
You don\'t need a lot of solar panels.
Solar panels are like paychecks . . . . . . Small, but probably fixed.
The battery is like a bank account.
They will save everything you can.
Withdrawals are usually larger than paychecks.
The accumulated power can be used for larger or longer loads.
In the case of a bank account, you can spend-if needed-like client #9-
Or in the case of your cabin Reno . . . . . . Stay online with a 15 am p power supply and illuminate the cabin with a 12 v LED.
We installed the one75w panel of Siemens, 4 scrap stations-
A \"tracking\" controller ,(ebay)
And 1700 W Inverter (
New price for Canadian tyres is $385)all for $970.
We put it on the ground of the cottage, saw the board and after, cooked every cup of coffee, shook it for two weeks, then sucked all the things that fit the 2 \"vaccumm hose
The system panel is now on the roof of the cabin and the battery is dead ,(
Like most banks now)
More batteries are ready to be installed at the same price as all the homemade beers we drank in two weeks.
The division factor of our sunshine availability in Nova Scotia will prompt an \"E\" on the calculator \".
Recycling and confession on the same decision ship in my cabin.
Because it will be used (Me or someone else)6-
10 weekends a year, I am looking for alternatives to expensive solar installations.
My 1000-watt Honda generator (
12 V & 110 juice)
Very efficient (
Less pollution than most).
It can charge the 12 v battery directly in less than an hour.
The 12 V Deep cycle battery should be able to run the computer throughout the weekend.
Of course, you can always charge from your home grid.
Instead of running the drip coffee machine, the small generator runs the filter. It ran two (newer)
Gerators is fine when there is a power outage at home.
In my dreams, the idea of letting go of all these things has a great appeal: follow the natural light of the day, sleep when it\'s dark, wake up at dawn, and read with oil.
Radio: listen in the car on the way to town, or buy some rechargeable batteries in Boston to charge them.
Laptop, this is also the most difficult problem I can solve.
Can\'t you charge in Boston?
Using Stoneham\'s library?
The power grid in Boston is good.
How to feel freely that once these solar panels enter, you don\'t owe anyone money other than the bank you took out the loan to pay . . . . . . So where is the solar panel estimated.
I can\'t see the price of $180.
By the way, why build a cabin in Maine and then spend 15 hours a day running your laptop?
Man, I\'m a programmer and I don\'t even run my laptop for 15 hours a day. (
But please don\'t tell my employer! )
In any case, can I stay in your cabin after it\'s done?
I will bring my flying poles, flying ropes and laptops and I can assure you that they will not run for 15 minutes a day.
Hi Lou, love these posts.
Have you ever thought about wind power?
It may be a little less for 1kw windmills.
JonYes solar is not cheap, but the century of progress in extracting juice from sockets is not cheap either.
I suggest you contact a more local supplier to handle the norteast solar unit.
If you separate solar, solar rechargeable batteries and alternative fuel appliances such as a coal stove and refrigerator, your exact power needs may be more easily met.
Check Lehman\'s catalogue and 100 k Amish will not be wrong.
If it\'s not science fiction, I also think your estimate is ambitious.
15 hours of computer time makes you a slave to the keyboard.
Looking out from the window of the cottage, considering all the better things to do in the woods, the 15 th became the 3 Th or 4 th.
Change to a solar radio or a clockwork radio.
Bring a lot of stuff with low or no tech to fill your time-read a book or use a pen and paper.
If it becomes like home or work ,. . . . . . For convenience and cable, I will save time and trouble to and from work and stay in Boston.
I\'m sorry to bother you, but I think it\'s right to do so.
Lu, some responded to comments from others.
First of all, your assumptions about your computer\'s power needs may be greatly overestimated.
My 6-year-old Dell laptop (
I am writing this reply))
Inserted a kill-a-
It shows I used about 30 watts.
The current model is used less.
Even if you actually use the computer for 15 hours a day, you can only work to 450 watts. hours/day.
If your current computer does use 125 watts per hour, it\'s much smarter to buy a new, more energy-efficient model than to spend thousands of extra purchases on more solar energy than you need.
Second, you won\'t buy extra panels for \"inefficient\"-cloudy and cloudy days.
You buy extra batteries to give you enough storage to spend the cloudy day, and you can track mounts if you want to make the most of what you get from each panel.
So go back to my review of your laptop-it sounds like you can really have a good time on 600 --
700 watt hours/day, about 60 AH working hours (amp hours)at 12 volts.
My guess is that a 180 W panel can meet your needs, 500-
Battery capacity 600 AHof (
Let\'s say you use a 12 volt wire)
It will make you spend a cloudy week.
You should be able to do a very adequate system for $2.
3000, even pay full retail.
With solar power, it is very important not to buy too many systems (
Unless you have money to burn).
I have very little demand in my cabin (lighting only)
Encountered a single 50-watt panel (free)
, 7 amp charging controller ($30)
And a 110 deep one.
Circulating RV battery ($80)
About $50 wire.
Building, other people provide great insight here.
I hope you will accept another email with some ideas and questions.
I read your sun report and it seems to be in line with everything else I \'ve read.
$10 k is a lot of money, but in remote areas, when power companies want $1 feet for overhead lines, or $1 feet for underground lines, sometimes solar energy is cheaper as a start-up.
I needed to run 300 feet, chose underground, chose to run by myself, and was still looking at the $1 feet wire/cable trench fee, $1000.
I run the water at the same time and maximize the cost, but it does increase the cost.
That said: What I see missing in your use assessment is related to food preparation or storage? Refrigerator? cook top? coffee pot?
Electric kettle for hot water?
Another idea might be to look at the 12 v camping cooler and or camping ice boxes and run them from the solar panel.
Or explore in the fridge.
As for lighting, the new led battery light for sale in the wood shop can not only work, but also work.
You can say the impact of the battery on the environment
Or recharge?
These are also mentioned by others.
Don\'t try to light up the room when you think about lighting, but light up the task.
The final idea is partial Solar Energy-start with a panel, one or two batteries, build your solar system every year, and spread your initial $10 k investment in a few years, gradually increase your power usage or reduce your dependence on the grid.
This may mean considering your wiring schematic, perhaps connecting 12 v to the top socket, connecting 110 to the bottom (as a example)
, Or a separate electrical outlet.
Finally, I also agree with Mark about the generator?
Again, the environmental side is a trade-off, but it may make sense to rely solely on the generator, or partly on the generator, or for an emergency backup.
Finally, would you be kidding if the laptop works 15 hours a day without a coffee pot?
You said you were a professor? ? ? ? ? ?
Lou, I have read these comments and still stick to my original view of buying a separate diesel or gas generator.
This is not to be confused with people using a small portable Honda generator, but the operating load of a real, several-day home generator.
Most of your estimates for electricity use are computers, electric lights, and water pumps.
What refrigerator? A fan?
Air conditioning?
Space heater, electric blanket, bathroom exhaust fan, mobile charging station and laptop? ?
How about electric tools?
In order to power your hi load device, you need a backup generator.
You put a generator on the solar system, battery and backup generator, and there is no comparison in terms of the price of electricity and the convenience of installation and use. You can see which side of the fence I am on.
Luckily, Mark, Chris, S and ihall, your advice and observations have given me a lot of work and thinking.
I will look at my needs and the way to implement them.
I suspect that I am overestimating the demand for electricity.
You provide some fascinating possibilities here.
Solar well pumps and solar panels purchase old batteries and cheaper equipment and use efficient generators wisely.
All this is very helpful.
Anna, you put your fingers on the essentials.
As the sun rises, sleep when it\'s dark, retreat in time and read through the lights.
These are all tempting aspects of the escape and let me build the cottage in the first place.
I like what you think.
Let me see, Jack.
Will reply to you soon
Jon, the wind in my cabin is not fast enough.
Can you tell me?
We have a lot of wind in Stoneham.
If you live in a heavily wooded area, the thing a lot of people won\'t consider is how many trees you have to cut down in order for your solar panels to be able to collect light without hindrance.
That\'s right, you can make firewood with wood so it doesn\'t waste, but still it will change your landscape.
Where are you going to install solar panels?
While metal roofs can easily snow, it\'s still hard to wait for this to happen when you know you won\'t get energy collection as long as they\'re covered in white.
It\'s not fun to clean up ladders when it\'s cold outside and you have to climb them in the wind/cold/ice.
As far as wind power is concerned, while Stoneham is known for its biting winds, there are other issues to consider.
When the windmill flies up and then melts enough to work and starts throwing dozens of feet of ice, it\'s a deadly projection.
Not to mention, you have to ask if an 80-meter-high tower is allowed in your town.
Make sure all connections are grounded!
You don\'t want the tower hit by lightning and charging to get into your battery pack and burn your house. Re: generators.
Be sure to be as quiet as possible.
In order to stay away from the hustle and bustle of the city, you came to the forest;
The last thing you want is noise pollution from the generator.
Mark van Roojen and those considering the energy tax credit: Yes, the cost of solar installation is as high as 30%, however, it only works if you use it in fulltime (main)residence.
This is true of any other energy.
Tax Credit Program (
Windows, doors, appliances, ceiling fans, metal roofs, etc).
Sadly and stupidly, there is no benefit to the second house.
Well, Jack.
I\'m not talking about the flow side.
I went back and checked my conversation record with the Backwoods Solar friendly and called to confirm the price.
In fact, the price per group is $715.
The difference is large for each panel, but the total number on the quote remains the same.
So you\'re a fly. tyer? Any favorites?
Website:/www. dsireusa.
Organization/motivation. cfm?
With respect to the tax credit, incenti_code = us37f said: \"The house provided by the system does not have to be the principal residence of the taxpayer.
\"This site is sponsored by the US Department of Energy and the North Carolina Solar Center, so for me, this information looks very reliable.
They did say it had to be a residence. FWIW.
You might want to see it, MarkLou.
Medical direction. com/machines-cpap-bipap/battery-pack-universal-cpap. html(
Or something like that)
I have a ventilator which makes camping a problem.
If I really want to invest in it, I will invest in it.
I\'m not a computer-friendly person, so I\'m not sure if this works, but I think it\'s worth looking.
I will use propane for the rest.
Candles and lanterns are clearly your minimum lighting needs. Just a thought!
Mark, thank you for the link-this is good news for me personally.
Lou, anything in the tradition of Catskill, just for the grace of form.
Anything with goose hair body, just to make a very good package with goose hair very hard ,(
Although I noticed that my mutant fish, which looked awkward, seemed to attract more fish. Go figure).
I find that a feather-shaped body makes fishing more difficult because the fish will feel the hard body and spit out the hook faster than the fish known as the body.
Recently, where I am now, it has been raining heavily, with wewe and nymphs everywhere.
Somewhere in New York, isn\'t there a museum dedicated to the tradition of the Catskill dry flies?
I always wanted to have a look.
I was excited about your $180 solar panel.
I bought the panel last year and couldn\'t even find something close to this price, so I read your estimate carefully.
I recently went fishing in Delaware.
Of course, all these countries are the cradle of dry fly fishing in the United States.
Now I am reading the article by John balles, who was hiking and fishing in his 1860 s.
Great reading.
The Fly on the cover of my book back throw is a Parmacheene Belle-
Old fashioned Maine wet flies.
The wings are duck feathers in red and white.
Mainers tend to catch more Brooke than brown or Rainbow, and tend to attract flies with red or orange patterns.
As you know, brooktrout is more gullible than those of Catskill Brown.
God bless the stream trout!
Hi Lou, I\'m another Jon, the T-with the porcupine eating my outhouse-111 siding (since fixed).
Since my user of the same name on another login site mentioned wind, I feel like I have to chime in as an engineer as I have done some projects on some sites to study using
Unlike other Jon, I don\'t think the wind is that economical.
According to the general wind map provided on the Navigator. awstruewind. com/ (free login)
, The average wind speed in your area is only about 4 m/s, which is OK, but not very large.
For ~ Power requirements of 0. 5 kW (
As other posters mentioned, this may be overrated, but this is the number I will use)
, You may have to use things like/www. bergey.
Html is a unit of 1 KW, which means it can generate 1 KW if you have enough wind.
If not, its production will decrease.
According to the manufacturer, the tower will generate almost enough electricity (1. 9 kWhr per day)
Even if the average wind speed is 3. 5 m/s (//www. bergey.
Com/Products/xl1. Energy. html)
However, the cost of only needing turbines and towers is about $6,000, and you also need batteries, inverters and other ancient equipment, so this is not really a cost savings compared to PV.
However, there may be national economic incentives to reduce this cost (
Because there may be PV).
In New York, for example, the turbine has an incentive of up to $4,000 (
Lower as the installation height decreases).
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And other sentences)
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But if we casually scatter them where they are not needed, the effect is at best just distracting and can be confusing.
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