Are Hybrids Really That Reliable?

by:CTECHi     2019-12-19
On Tuesday, I wrote the results of the Consumer Report Annual Car Reliability Survey, in which the scores of hybrid cars were surprising.
Five of the top eight family vehicles are hybrid vehicles.
The most reliable of them is the Honda Insight hybrid.
Some readers are skeptical or completely unconvinced.
\"I have two friends who deliberately lie in these surveys to make hybrid cars look better and push the green car agenda,\" David wrote . \".
\"I can see from the results that they are not the only ones who do this.
As any engineer knows, complex hybrid systems will not be more reliable than their gasoline
Only peers.
\"On another issue, owner satisfaction affects \'reliability, \'Austin wrote \'.
So, hybrid owners like the fact that they are \"green\", or that Toyota owners know they are driving a reliable car, or that Porsche owners feel great every time they drive, this may affect the quality data.
\"There are a few comments similar to these two --
In fact, we believe it is necessary to call on the consumer report to comment further, first of all whether the hybrid is really reliable, or whether the owners of some hybrid have covered up the truth in answering the investigation.
\"They are good, reliable vehicles,\" said Jack Fisher, a senior automotive engineer at the consumer reporting automotive testing center . \".
\"An electric motor and a nickelmetal-
Hydrogen batteries are not rocket science.
I put my money in my mouth.
My wife drove a Prius and there was a problem with the Husson.
I don\'t want her and our kids stuck on the side of the road.
\"When looking at the blog comments, he mentioned that Prius\'s top rating is much better than the average rating, which is based on thousands of responses (
The exact number is proprietary information)
So if a couple of people lie about something wrong with their car
Free, he said, no difference.
He said that the consumer report had multi-year data from different surveys showing those who responded to the system.
Year after year, we have cars that people are very satisfied with and love them, but they still tell us that cars are unreliableFisher said.
When the Volkswagen New Beetle came out, everyone who bought the car liked it.
Then they went into our annual questionnaire and told us they were in trouble --
Vulnerable and poor reliability.
In addition, it is worth noting that Prius did a very good job on J. D.
Research on vehicle reliability, look at three-year-
The old vehicle was blocked.
Of the 2008 and 2009 studies, Prius is the most reliable vehicle in the field.
At 2006 and 2007, the car ranks among the top three in its segment.
Another issue our readers are looking into Consumer Reports is the performance of the Honda Insight hybrid, which was released last spring.
Some readers would like to know, since it is available in such a short period of time, how can it get the highest score in terms of predictive reliability?
First, the reliability of the forecast is based on the reliability score of the consumer report in the last three model years, if a model has not changed during that period and has not changed significantly in 2010.
If a model is all
During that time, the magazine may use data for a year or two, if that\'s all the data available.
But at the very least, consumers report that a sample size of a car is required to be 100 in order to rate it.
They don\'t rate it if they don\'t have that much.
So the rating of insight is based on at least 100 responses,
Fisher said he was not surprised by the high rating because the car was not fresh.
The hybrid system is very different from the hybrid system that Honda has been using in its hybrid system for many years and is also used in the Civic hybrid system.
It is mostly proven technology and even the chassis is shared with Fit, which has been around for years, he said.
Comments are no longer accepted.
The answer is No. not all hybrids are reliable.
Witness the \"light hybrid\" that GM has been recalled for battery leaks \".
It\'s not that they are really worth the difference of 1 mpg or acceleration and astronomical reduction than traditional similar products.
Forget the hybrid.
I would like to know why the \"professional\" Truck Series in GMC ads rank so low28 out of 33.
Professional equipment should be the best and most reliable you can buy.
If they can\'t even get into the top 10, how do they continue to use the slogan \"professional grade \"?
Consumer Reports missed the main issue of Uber\'s reliable favorites, but owners did not often acknowledge it until they were asked about it.
Honda\'s five-speed automatic transmission has been a problem for many years, and some people joked that Ford made a shabby minivan because the automatic transmission was not good, while Honda has built a very reliable minivan, it has a problem with the automatic transmission.
I even had a colleague who punished me for having Ford Taurus because it was unreliable and I should have gotten something like his Acura, but when he was pressed, he admitted that his transmission went out in less than 35 kilometers.
The issue with the Honda 6 speed manual seems to be continuing.
So much predictive reliability and
Representative samples
I hope that the current hybrid cars perform well in terms of reliability in the middle and late life, and then show similar problems to other electronic complex vehicles.
I don\'t think consumers catch this when they report that motors and battery packs are not \"rocket science.
I agree with them, but you need to keep in mind that hybrids also have gasoline engines, so they should have the same problem as their gasoline counterparts, and additional engines, battery and more complex transmission.
Prius is likely to be as reliable as they say because it\'s a non-
Mixed version for comparison.
But how can a Toyota Camry hybrid be more reliable than 4cyl Camry?
The hybrid Camry is the same as 4cyl Camry but has extra parts.
Statistically, it doesn\'t match.
The only real way to measure vehicle reliability is through warranty data.
Consumer reporting is one of the many resources I use when buying expensive items.
They seem to have an honest intention and do a good job of balancing praise and selling products.
They investigate their extensive database of readers to obtain reliability information and combine it with their product evaluation.
However, providing the best consumer information does not mean that it is the best information.
The consumer report says the reliability of Honda insight, which has been sold recently and slowly, is the lowest, which is a damage to itself and its readers.
The information provided in the article proves that the data used to make this decision is statistically invalid.
The sample size is insufficient, which is too new for judging reliability.
Initial Quality yes, reliability No.
It is very important that the \"car\" is not a brand new statement, \"there are many differences between Civic Hybrid and Honda Insight, and this view is based on Honda Fit and citizens are a citizen.
I believe their call for high volume vehicles such as Prius, civic, Fox, Malibu, Silverado, etc.
However, their reliability requires low-capacity cars like Insight, Fusion Hybrid, and Altima Hybrid.
It shows that their judgment is too much. real data.
Finally, while Honda Insight may or may not be reliable, in their recent comments on small cars, it ranks 22 out of 23 and receives their expert testers
What\'s the use of reliable but poorly designed cars for most people?
Talk to the mechanic. They are non-
This has to do with the reliability of Toyota Prius, as they have never seen them in the store for repairs other than routine maintenance.
The Prius repairman is like the MAYTAG repairman in his 50 s or so, and the boring man is doing crossword games on the carpet with a drooping ear dog.
Reliable cars do not produce as many accessories to work.
Buy a GM that will solve the job downturn.
How about the crown prince\'s ironic and reference to Volt\'s comment #6, which hasn\'t been released yet, or has not deviated from the subject or abuse in the article?
A few things to remember about hybrid cars are :(1)
In some cases, the transmission is simpler than a gasoline-only car ,(2)
The rated power of the engine is lower compared to gasoline. (3)
Compared with mechanical parts, the reliability/failure mechanism of electronic products is different.
Hybrid cars may also be made by the most skilled workers, which may lead to better reliability.
Don\'t forget that a full hybrid like Prius runs ice at a different level than a standard ICE powered car.
A 100-mile Prius may only be 85 kilometers on a gasoline engine, because the electric mode, due to the electric assist, 85 k miles of mileage is less laborious on the engine.
Like GM, the mild hybrid is very different, unlike the full hybrid, because these results will be different.
The Prius car has just been 10 years old, and it has surpassed the magic million cars made.
In the same time, it sold far more than the T-Ford.
I want to know how good the oldest model is.
Toyota says the battery pack has limited battery life, 10 years and 100 miles.
But customers rush every day.
On the typical Toyota ice, a 100 K car has just entered middle age.
Is the life of these vehicles a half or a permanent life?
Will we see the 20-year-old priuseskill play the role of everyday cars like the Corollas we see?
Anyone who has taken a college basic statistics course can easily find problems with the way consumer reports collect and publish reliability data.
The first and biggest problem with CR data is that they are based on CR users and only CR users.
To collect reliability data, they sent an annual questionnaire to the user base.
A certain percentage of these people responded, but this is not close to 100%, and even if the subscriber has a 100% response, the sample base does not represent a real random sampling.
Because of some type of person (consumer)
Read CR, if you only sample subscribers, you distort your stats and miss a large group of other types of consumers who will never consider subscribing to CR, don\'t even read CR casually in a library or bookstore.
Certain types of people who subscribe to CR also buy certain brands and types of cars.
CR claims that they will not rank the car unless there is a sample number (n)
100 of people, however, for cars with sample numbers n = 100 and cars with sample numbers n = 10,000, it makes no sense to report reliability data on the same rating scale.
If 5 surveys show a problem with n = 100 samples, that is 5%.
A sample group of N = 500 requires 10,000 questions to reach the same 5%.
This is a realistic statistical comparison, and also, how is this fair?
CR does not provide transparency in the statistics, as they are like the Wizard of Oz.
If you\'re going to pull the curtain open, you\'ll be very surprised to see how unscientific their data collection program is and how it\'s responsible for distorting car reliability statistics over the years.
The scientific research paper published the sample size, average, median, pattern, any relevant abnormal information and other data that would help to fully disclose the way the data was collected, analyzed and presented.
Consumer Reports know nothing about it.
They want us to believe what they say and \"trust\" them.
#9 you may be right about your 85 k argument, but I would like to know what impact the constant start-up and shutdown of the gasoline engine has on the overall life of the engine.
The gas engine relies on oil pressurized by the oil pump to lubricate most of its internal parts.
When such an engine is turned off, the pressure is lost until the engine is restarted and the pressure accumulates again.
Oil pressure accumulation is relatively fast, but not instantaneous, and the short time of engine operation depends on residual oil that may or may not exist on these parts.
Some wear must occur.
The question, in my opinion, is whether this wear and tear offsets the benefits of putting the gas engine at rest.
In the fall of 2002, I bought a Buick Rendezvous of type 2003.
Consumer Reports have a good saying about this through testing, and the initial consumer feedback is good.
But as the 3-year warranty approaches, the problem is getting worse and worse.
Among these problems, wheel bearings, driver door and window regulators, steering wheels, computer of on-board equipment, etc!
2006 Consumer Reports are no longer full of praise.
In 2007, we used it for a Toyota Avalon.
Most new cars, Crown Prince (
Priuses haven\'t had such a long and newer hybrid yet, even less;
Not to mention the complexity they add)
No mechanic\'
\"They go back to the dealer! Steven W.
Put forward advantages;
But what I want to add is that other surveys are also statistically biased. J. D.
Electric survey of new car owners.
People who take the time to participate usually have one or the other axe grinding (
Either bad experience or people trying to praise their vehicle). The ‘middle-of-the-
At the same level, road walkers often do not participate.
I do agree that the reader of CR has a selective bias.
I like the long one.
Term, the \"Four Seasons\" test conducted by car magazine.
They traveled a lot of miles and used cars like most drivers (
But in a way that speeds up compression)
And often use them in bad weather.
Although not comprehensive, they usually give a good idea of the performance of the car.
I forgot two other things: the poster says the hybrid system is \"simple\" and far from the base.
By definition, they often implement things like CVT and basically have multiple transmission systems.
This is not simple.
In addition, another fairly well documented bias is that buyers of premium cars are much harder than ordinary cars.
If you\'re down $100,000 on U. S. debt
Mercedes, Porsche or BMW class 7-
Series, you get ticked when an ornament falls off, or the car fails to unlock at one time.
One might think that the topic will be silent ten years after the hybrid goes public.
Toyota has sold 2 million hybrid vehicles, and up to several hundred battery packs have broken.
Andrew Grant, a Vancouver taxi driver, drove two Prius over 200,000 miles but didn\'t crash them . . . . . .
Art spenella claims they will go bankrupt after 100,000 miles, but H2 will last 300,000 kilometers.
There are also 70 photos of Sudbury, on the moon\'s Love Canal, which was blamed on Prius when they were 0.
4% of all Toyota\'s steel is nickel from them.
Others talk about EMF radiation while chewing a microwave food blog on their monitor.
Then there is a large group of people who are eager to believe that only the Socialists will open the Prius-including James Woolsey Jr.
Senator Lamar Alexander, Bill Frith, Richard Luger?
Prius was declared the most reliable family sedan, followed by Ford Fusion with a hybrid option (
Consumer Report).
Prius ranks top 10 in sales in the US. why would 1-
2 million continue to buy lemon?
If not obvious, mixed opposition is irrational fear if not complete hatred.
Even after being blessed with CR and great sales, people are still skeptical, a sign of an era: If you lose an argument-spreading the wrong message indefinitely.
The CVT of Prius is very simple mechanically, basically two motors and a planetary gear unit.
The number of parts of the ordinary manual transmission is several times that of the ordinary manual transmission, and the number of parts of the automatic transmission is several times that of the ordinary manual transmission.
People who have a refrigerator for 30 years know that the motor can last for a long time.
Another factor that needs to be taken into account for the reliability of hybrid cars is the type of people who buy hybrid cars and how they drive.
Overcrowded Prius owners are obsessed with maximizing MPG, with much less pressure on vehicles than leading
Camaro driver.
I bought a Prius in 2000 because it was one of the few cars with better gasoline mileage than the Toyota Echo I was buying because it had a good mileage (
Priuses were hard to get at the time. ).
Echo\'s life was hard. he died young for a Toyota.
I have dealt with the team manager of the dealer and have not dealt with the sales staff.
They need two Prius certified mechanics, he said, but they do look like the supposedly idle Maytag repairman.
Since then, I \'ve been driving more than 11,000 miles trying to find out how this thing works.
Yes, in some ways it has more parts than conventional cars, but in other important ways it has fewer parts.
In particular, it does not have a gear or transmission in our view.
There is a planetary gear assembly that rotates at different speeds depending on the speed of the main motor
The generator is turning.
There is no shift so it should not wear out like a traditional driving train.
Yes, it has a complex computer control system, but I suspect that the sealed logical components are no more dangerous than the computers of any other modern car.
The engine is a de-tuned Echo/Yaris engine that operates at a more stable speed with lower output pressure, which I hope will not bring too much pressure.
NiMH battery is working to charge the primary motor
The generator makes up for the low output of the engine (
There\'s a second motor.
The generator, whose job is mainly to convert the extra output of the engine into power).
As we all know, the current battery has the potential of over 200,000 miles, so it will not become a killer of longevity.
The motor just rotates in the magnetic field, which seems to be less pressure than controlling the combustion explosion.
There is an interesting hole under the cargo area.
One of my friends is working with another guy in Europe to add a lithium battery in that compartment to make the current model into a plug
A hybrid like the Chevrolet Volt.
I\'m pretty sure they can add a battery tomorrow if Toyota thinks the economy is reasonable.
The cost of lithium batteries is the difference between the price expected by Prius and Volt.
Yes, I can only move the car forward with battery and motor now, but NiMH battery can only drive 2 miles.
From what I have seen, I expect this Toyota to be better than I used to be.
I also realized that gas prices need to rise about 3 times before I care (
Believe me, it will . . . . . . ).
I hope this car can be driven for many years.
We will see . . . . . . In my opinion, there is also an obvious bias of natural selection.
Driving factors for fuel economy with insufficient power
A thoughtful hybrid is more likely to drive more stably than an ordinary driver.
As a result, hybrid cars drive more gently and may wear less each year or every mile.
Again, due to driver/Usage demographics, truck and minivan accident statistics generally look better than average, not due to any inherent design or construction quality.
I have read, and also observed in a friend\'s Prius, that the headstock oil is usually very dark and becomes so soon after the oil change.
This suggests that the frequent start/stop cycle of ice may have some effect.
I\'m not an expert on this, so I\'m not going to speculate further on what is (presumably)
Pollution of oil may have an impact.
I know that the oil in Avalon and Prizm/Corola that I own is usually 3-
4,000 miles after the change.
I\'m seriously considering buying Prius in a year or so, but I was wondering if it would be wise to change oil more frequently. I own 5 cars.
I had 2002 Prius until June 2009.
I stopped 92,000 miles in New York metro area and then I got a job asking me to drive 600 miles a week95.
7 years, 48 miles on average, 2 service problems.
Upgrade the computer module once during warranty, and the fuel pump fails once.
You guys, Toyota has perfected the system.
I\'m driving a BMW now. Why ?
I like cars, I can afford what I like and drive my car
95, I want more power than the tractor trailer.
I\'m a cynical person, so I\'m really interested in the biases and distortions that some of them cite about the effectiveness of mixed data.
I support my comment on the original article that owner satisfaction affects reliability.
The CR investigation is trying to determine something. gone-wrong.
But the customer\'s perception of the dealer and ownership experience may affect the way they fill out the form.
It\'s not just a matter of a few people trying to play with this survey, it\'s a broader trend. Non-
The quality factors that affect the response include brand perception, vehicle perception, driving experience, and dealer experience.
It is not easy to determine the difference between vehicles;
Most products are very reliable, and there is usually little to distinguish between Japanese and American products. S. product.
From now on, I personally have seen the difference between GM/Toyota sisters --
With the NUMMI plant closed, there are also some differences between Ford and closely related mercury products.
Both of these may be related to the brand and the potential reseller experience, but not to the quality.
I am not saying that CR is not doing well;
In fact, the data they provide is difficult to obtain in other ways.
But when you think about what I\'m talking about and compare it to Steven W (#11)
Excellent post of self
Fill the prophecy with a CR reader, which just means you can\'t get all the data at par value.
You should add other factors, such
Season test recommended by Larry (#14).
In order to obtain a good quality grade, it is not enough for manufacturers to produce only products with low quality --gone-wrong.
The product must also convince customers that they have made an informed choice.
This means that the car has to look good, drive well and have a positive brand and vehicle image.
When the customer is satisfied and satisfied with the car by the dealer, he/she will ignore (i. e. forget)
Things that may go wrong.
Of course, all of these factors have lagged effects --
Whether it is improvement (like Ford)
Those that are deteriorating (like Toyota? ).
Michael Rosing, the number of parts is hardly the most important indicator in complexity.
Almost since the advent of the car, the manual transmission has been in its basic, current form.
Do you think the microchips are \"part\" or thousands?
Today\'s automatic, order Manual, double
The calculation capacity and complexity of the clutch manual and CVT are 6-
Ferrari 360 speed.
I was lucky enough to drive most of the current highways.
Technology transmission, no one is as satisfactory as a good MT.
The day may come when that is no longer true;
But it hasn\'t happened yet.
Check out Volkswagen/Audi in DSG, Mitsubishi and double-
Clutch in Evo, Nissan with overheating problem in GT-R, etc. No thanks.
It seems easy to get different types of reliability data for comparison.
Toyota and other automakers offer figures for each model\'s sales over a given period of time.
The national registry database will provide the numbers of how many are still on the road for each model year.
Some states also record the mileage when the car is re-driving, so you can make a reasonable estimate of the average mileage.
This is also very interesting (
Tips for reporters here)
Given the 100 K and 300 K miles of life claims in the infamous \"Dust to Dust\" study to understand the percentage of Hummers and Priuses that are still on the road.
My own informal \"What I see\" survey does indicate that there are more priuse on the road here than on the Hummer.
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